Thanks for pointing this out and starting the conversation – growing up, I definitely noticed the stereotypical Asian characters in movies - long duk dong in 16 candles, the Siamese cats in Lady and the Tramp - even as a kid those characters made me so uncomfortable. Keep speaking up and advocating. It is the only way to change things. Also, I love your voice and getting your perspective out there – it’s important for us to show our humanity. I’ve been pointing things out to my daughter, and now she notices things… She asks me about why people draw Asian people with slits for eyes. We have written to publishers (and heard back) - they have not pulled existing stock off of the shelves, but they asked for our opinion for future illustrations. Every little bit helps, and I wish we could go back in time and change things!
Alice that’s so great that you’re not only teaching your daughter to recognize it but also teaching her to take positive action. We are all in this together!
Yes, I take a lot more action when it's for my kids ;)... that's also why I started my substack Happy Asian Woman - to teach my kids to value mental health and learn all the things I never knew growing up (my Chinese immigrant parents had less access to info than American parents.) Love the work you're doing!
From the short time I’ve been reading your pieces, movie watching seems to encapsulate the complexity of your experience. To be overjoyed by the humor while at the same time, quietly jabbed. To have to take the bad alongside the good. I felt the grief of this—are you to deny your boys the cultural experience of these popular films to spare them the moments of unfairness and discomfort? A very quotidian yet awful dilemma. I’m so glad to be here, learning about these challenges. I, too, have been shocked by some portrayals that once seemed innocuous. (Sebastian the lobster in little mermaid?!) but maybe it’s a sign of progress that we’re looking at these depictions and wincing. The more interesting point that you raise is—at what point does the whole movie get scrapped? And who should look away? If this discomfort belongs to any of us, it should belong to all of us.
Isabel, thank you! You really summarized what I was trying to say, and I so appreciate that. We all still want to watch the movies. I've had it suggested by some to avoid them completely, and to watch stuff from Arab cultures, and while I like some Arab tv shows, I relate much better to North American and British content. It's much closer to my lived experience. So I don't fit here, and I don't fit there... Or rather, I fit here but am constantly reminded with these little jabs that others don't see me as fitting.
I agree. I often find myself thinking "this book/film would be so much better without that stereotype." I hated the portrayal of Afghanistan in Iron Man. It was such horrible caricaturing, that I hoped that the real Afghanistan wouldn't be associated with the film, just because the portrayal was so obviously false.
When I read Tolkien's works, I didn't envision the Southrons and men from the East the way the films portray them. Tolkien often borrowed imagery from ancient literarure in creating his world. The men from the south riding on oliphaunts seem based on Hannibal's campaign against Rome, when he brought elephants over the Alps. I thought of the men from the East as being based on something like Attila the Hun's threat to Rome from Eastern Europe. The films failed to convey that in the books the North was also a threat to Middle Earth, an image based on the waves of Germanic invaders from Scandinavia into the crumbling Roman Empire, starting with the Goths. Unfortunately, it is too easy for Tolkien's use of ancient history to be misinterpreted in the modern context, as it clearly was by the costume designers and makeup artists for the films, and by the script writers who left out the reason why Aragorn and his fellow rangers (who were all left out) were needed in the North.
Thanks for these thoughts, Holly. I really really love LOTR, both the movies and the books. We rewatch the movies every year, sometimes multiple times. It's good to have the background that Tolkien actually based the writing on, but it does hurt to see the way they're represented in the movie, which is just much too convenient.
I haven't watch Hindi language films but maybe I should!
Tolkien was a MAN of his time. He wrote those books before and after his experience as a soldier in World War II. He internalized a LOT of stereotypes and propaganda in all those years before and after those wars.
This is what writers today have to be careful of in their own writings. Writers must ask why that character, that setting. Of course, there are the deliberate and, these days, often unquestioned writings of those with an agenda.
Tolkien's treatment of the two or three women in his trilogy is and was off-putting for me back in the 1970s when I read his books for the first time, but I excused this because he was a 'man of his time'. The second time was the portrayals of the Southrons and kinds of peoples drawn to his beliefs. "Wrong!" I thought. "What of the pasty white men drawn to his beliefs?" I wondered, but put it down to his exposure to propaganda. He hadn't even been in that part of the world, I think though don't know.
Oh yes, we've participated in debates about the right or wrong of the serial rapists in movies that were portrayed as mere scamps, mischievious rascals. "Well done!" the boys, and possibly us, would think.
Entertainment as portrayal of an era and entertainment as propaganda, which is it? Is it both? I wonder these days.
Ellen, thank you for adding the take about women. How ridiculously few there were in this insanely long, over arching epic story. Arwen especially drove me crazy, and her portrayal by Liv Tyler was especially grating. I have a soft spot for Cate Blanchett and I find Galadriel and Eowyn both more whole, as opposed to just being romantic interests and defined by their relationships to either their father or husband/boyfriend.
I still absolutely adore the stories though. But all my favourite characters are male: Gandalf, Samwise, Boromir and Faramir, even Gollum. I was manipulated but I accepted the manipulation.
Absolutely agree! Cate could never do wrong in my eyes and the Galadriel character was a woman that didn't stay at her husband's side, but oversaw the health of her community. She was sooo like a woman to be both soft and hard at the same time.
Arwen's character was Icky in the book and in the movie. I've never been able to see Liv Tyler as any of the characters she has ever played. If you remember the books, Arwen was a one dimensional character anyway did no loss there ;-).
I must say I often enjoy how Hindi language films satirize British culture. The British officials in 'Lagaan', with their clueless arrogance, are a good example.
@noha beshir ... thank you for this perspective. I had never considered the metaphorical weight of simple tropes such as East/West light/dark ... a lot of food for thought here. Another aspect of white privilege I hadn't considered ... movies, stories in general, have long used stereotypes as an easy way to telegraph a point. Heroes are generally white males, villains are "the others." Even as a primarily non-fiction writer, I am going to be much more careful about the stories I share.
As a Jew, I find and notice a lot of offensive Jewish tropes in prewar literature.
It's never really bothered me, because there are so many more recent counter examples.
I wonder if there's an opportunity to contrast the movies you love but have those barbs of anti-Muslim racism with more recent ones that have characters whose Muslim identity is viewed with favor or at least neutrality. Do they exist and at the same time are they age appropriate? I don't know. But they should!
David, thanks so much for your comment. There are honestly so few positive examples and a handful of neutral ones, and even the neutral ones are usually woefully inaccurate. There are also still so many negatives. It's moving in the right direction, but it is very slow going.
A good recent example is Miss Marvel, which was mainly positive, but really not accurate at all. We watched it with the kids, hoping for that experience of feeling represented, and found it fun but not at all relatable.
Then there are Ramy and Mo, two shows with Muslim male leads, but they are definitely adult only content, and they again don't represent a practicing Muslim experience at all (drinking, dating, other NSFW content, etc). The characters are at least humanized?
One thing I've appreciated is that some movies have stopped making Muslims/Arabs the default enemy. If you notice the most recent Top Gun, they intentionally never mention or show the enemy beyond describing them as the "The Enemy". It worked great! Not alienating anyone and still being tonnes of fun and adventure.
I'm holding out hope that there will be more. Like you said, they certainly should exist!
I watched Ms. Marvel, Ramy and Mo, which as a non-Muslim I watched and loved but can’t speak to how accurate or representative they are.
I am from Houston so I particularly loved Mo and it being a love letter to H-town. I think with all of those shows, it does represent a shift in showing different subjectivities of Muslim characters rather than all within one hardened, racist trope.
That’s the beauty of Ms. Marvel, which was essentially a coming of age story, to show a desi female Muslim superhero to kids - that would have been unheard of 10 years ago!
Anyway I enjoyed this piece, and it reminds me that we should show our kids some oldies too-I’ve mostly been playing old songs from the 90’s for them!
Ramy and Mo were lots of fun, and they probably portray a specific experience very well (that of the secular Muslim). My beef is probably that they don't portray the majority experience that well. I believe the majority of Muslims are practicing, at least to some degree, and that means a lot of things that are often a crutch in shows (bar scenes, dating/sex/etc, drugs, etc) are not going to make frequent appearances in shows that would represent us. So, they just avoid representing us, even though we are a HUGE portion of the population.
The Houston representation was fantastic. I find their stand up really great, to be honest, more so than the shows...
Ms. Marvel was fun, and maybe more relatable for Desis. As an Arab, my kids were confused. We've almost never talked about Jinn and the references were so frequent...
One side note on Mo - it made TV history in the sense that it was the first time there was a scripted series set entirely in Houston AND the first time it centered a Palestinian family!
For Ms. Marvel, Jinn was so integral to the storyline and the MCU overall that they definitely talked about it a lot. I have a bunch of Muslim friends for whom Jinn stories were a regular part of their upbringing, so its great to hear your perspective about it. Just shows the importance of having as many diverse characters on screen as possible, with diverse stories.
Hollywood was racist at its inception. In 1915 DW Griffiths, Birth of A Nation, depicted Black people as unintelligent and the KKK as heroic. Griffiths was a known racist, proudly hating Jews and Blacks. Gone With The Wind was another celebrated movie that is painful to watch today. Hattie McDaniel was the first Black woman to win an Oscar yet had to enter through a different door at the theatre and was not allowed to sit with her white costars. While movies have changed a lot, especially in the last five years with DEI, I still see Jewish tropes. It’s heartbreaking. I’m glad I raised my kids to know that G-d created us equally. There are some movies I refuse to watch if the starring actor is known for his or her Jew hatred.
You might try some newer kids movies as Hollywood has become more self aware. Here’s a great site that recommends movies that celebrate diversity. I’ve seen some of these movies. Soul, 42, Hidden Figures… all wonderful. https://tinybeans.com/family-movies-that-celebrate-diversity/
Thanks for the rec. I've seen most of the movies there and we do watch a lot of the new stuff. I just love the stuff I grew up on too... Things are changing, but not quickly enough, that's for sure. The anti-Jewish, anti-Black, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim tropes are still there.
As a big fan of Tolkien, reading the books once a year and watching the movies at least once a year, I absolutely agree with you on the problems with race in the films and books.
In the books, of course, we have a more nuanced take—despite the orientalist and if not unwittingly racist than surely glaringly race-blind and embarrassing descriptions of orcs & the Haradrim.
I especially wish that the following passage from the books had made it into the non-extended release of the movies. This is from the scene where Faramir and his company fight the southerners in Ithilien — where one of the southern warriors is killed and his body is thrown right next to where Frodo and Sam are hiding.
“It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would rather have stayed there in peace.”
The films, which mostly do such a good job in modernizing certain aspects of the story, just kept in the racist nonsense. It wouldn’t have even been that hard to make the southerners visually distinct while also not being obviously middle eastern.
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I’d love to see an essay about Ms. Marvel sometime. 👀
Thank you so much Willow. I love this detailed take on the books and movies. I've always loved them and read and watch regularly, but I never really "studied" them, so your added perspective is so welcome.
People, and I understand their reasons, love to try and explain away the problematic pieces of Tolkien’s writing. Those who read the various extra-literary sources of world building can find in explicit terms what the novels only mention in passing. There are problematic things in the worldbuilding—and how can there not be? Tolkien, bless him, was an ENGLISHMAN who fought in WW1!
But I think we ought to be honest about it—and, looking critically at the whole of the work there is much to praise as well as much to groan at.
Lots of the Rings is a classic of fantasy literature—many branches of fantasy today are drawn so directly from Tolkien (I mean, Dungeons & Dragons was *SUED* by the Tolkien estate and had to change the language of many characters and character class features as a result: hobbit became halfling, ent became treant, etc).
It is not going to go anywhere or lose its centrality to fantasy if we honestly critique the ways in which it fails. So we must! Especially those of us with Tolkien-esque swords on our belts at every Ren Fair (me) and scores of prints of Middle Earth on our walls (also me).
Hahahaaaa you’re welcome to opine here anytime you like. I agree with all of it. Don’t hide the ugly parts away. Hold it up to the sun, see it for what it is. It takes nothing away from the books
I work hard to pay attention to how people are portrayed. I am 58 and started doing this as a young adult as I began to unlearn sexism, racism, homophobia etc.
So I have a movie recommendation for all of us: The Persian Version. I saw it on a flight yesterday and it is a rich, funny and poignant portrait of an Iranian American family, focusing on the experiences of the women. It's available on various streaming services. It's directed by Maryam Keshavarz.
Noha, you are spot-on. I had a list of 80s movies to watch with the kids. I stopped after Back to the Future. Those Libyan terrorists were SO randomly injurious. They were a faceless mob of chaotic violence. "The Enemy." I asked my kids why they were there, and they basically said, "they needed brown people for the audience to be angry at." Plus, the plot over all (almost-incest?) was horrible.
We love Marvel (although phase 4 is struggling) but watched Iron Man exactly once. I had never seen it before. It feels soaked in American post 9/11, Iraq War propaganda. Hatred against Arab people (and those perceived to be so) became a form of patriotism.
I read C.S. Lewis books (a fellow Inkling with Tolkien) to the kids when they were young and had to edit them on the fly to leave out the "dark = bad" tropes rampant in The Horse and His Boy.
We need better narratives with at *least* the amount of nuance granted to white male serial killers.
I find Robert Downey Junior so entertaining and his Tony Stark so snarkily hilarious that I'll watch every outing of him as Iron Man, even if it hurts me. You're right about Hatred Against Arabs and others perceived to be Arab. I remember post 9/11 the amount of violence faced by Sikh people was atrocious and was a result of ignorant Americans not knowing the difference between a Sikh person and an Arab. Interchangeable brown people.
The plot of Back to the Future is ridiculous, you're right. I guess I just loved Marty and Doc, and how silly everything was. I'm a deeply silly person 🤷🏽♀️
re Lord of the Rings-- the book was written post WW1 and pre WW2. At that time, Britain was concerned about Hitler. Germany was east of Britain. He was one of a group of writers whose books were somewhat political.
However, the rest of what you mention is truly casual racism that no one noticed (notices?). Until people like you point it out, it won't change. What we can't see we can't change. "When you know better, you do better"- Maya Angelou
Thanks Ellen! Holly talks about the basis for Tolkien's "villains" a little more in another comment and it's helpful. The movies ignore all of that though.
I've wanted to get back to comment on this piece, Noha, after reading it a couple of days ago. I admit that my sensitivity to and awareness of bigotry has grown tremendously, a product of paying more attention and of making a conscious effort to widen the lenses I use to view the world. White, cis-, female raised in the south, I wasn't smart enough to see or challenge these things in my earlier life. I am sincerely sorry for that. In a similar vein, I've never had the chance to live outside of this country, nor in a particularly diverse community. So, I hope you and other readers will bear with my ignorance and/or naivety when I ask a question: Are films created in other countries apt to do the same as those produced in the west? By that I mean, are white people or Christians presented as stereotypes? I hope that's not a racist question. I don't mean it to be.. :/ I realize Hollywood is a behemoth that has dominated the film industry, so it's a little bit of a moot point. I just had never considered this until now.
Elizabeth, I'm so glad you came back and commented. First off, I want to tell you that the question is not racist and that I know you're asking from a place of curiosity and I'm happy to unpack it with you. Here are my thoughts:
I don't have a ton of experience with films from other countries, but from the experience I do have watching some old Egyptian shows/movies, the portrayal of white people and Christians are presented quite aspirationally. So, overall, once a while there is some stereotyping, it's almost always positive stereotyping, if that makes sense?
The other thing I'd say is around the concept of punching up or punching down. This is the idea of factoring in power dynamics - in that making fun of a group that has been marginalized is much worse than making fun of a group that has all the power. A really sharp / funny explanation of this is this clip by Australian Indian Comedian Aamer Rahman. It's a lot but honestly he really captures why the two groups making fun of each other are not the same in a way I was never able to articulate. Hope you can enjoy it... If you have more questions/thoughts after watching it, I'm always here to help unpack 🖤🖤🖤
absolutely! Any time. Also, if you have more questions, I'm thinking of doing an AMA post (basically, I'll take questions and write the responses in a post) - your question can be public or anonymous, let me know!
"It’s barbaric, but hey, it’s home”. OMG this hits home. And I remember watching the cartoon, and I must've sang these lyrics mindlessly in the past. I never even really examined what the words meant until I read this newsletter.
And I relate to this now more than ever, with the rise of anti-China sentiments in the West, I can't watch CNN or any US/European news commentary anymore because they often like to highlight the bad things in China/being Chinese rather than celebrate a lot of the good things from that country. I cannot explain why, as a member of the Chinese diaspora whose ancestors have not lived in China for 200+ years, that I feel this way. Except that I feel that they're insulting my heritage. The Mulan live action from Disney, for example, was especially egregious to me, and I am currently waiting in dread for Netflix's adaptation of Three-Body, which has a very unique Chinese perspective.
So, to spare myself the grief that you endured here, I no longer watch Western dramas, movies or news except for those I carefully cultivate to ensure they are balanced (they are pretty hard to find, alas). I am fortunate, however, that I'm multilingual and live in a part of the world where I can easily access content straight from various countries such as India, Malaysia, China, so I do not have to purely rely on Western sources for my entertainment and I somehow relate to the Chinese ones still, despite not being China Chinese.
Yup yup yup... I forgot that line existed for YEARS...
And yes it is infuriating. To come from a country with a long, rich history and then reduce that all to the most narrow view possible because you don't like the country's current politics. I get your take fully, that it being insulting to your heritage is enough of a reason to find it upsetting, even if you haven't lived there and your family hasn't been there for 200+ years. It's still who you are. We don't shed our history.
Yes, truly! As for your situation, especially with the heartbreaking horror that's happening in Palestine and the middle east, I just can't imagine the anger and sadness. Because I imagine if China were attacked the same way I'd be so upset.
Eventhough, logically I tell myself, well, I'm not from China ... but these are still my cousins, my people. And I'm sure it's the same for you.
Absolutely. I feel like I'm living a fractured existence, observing the genocide of Palestinians on my phone while I live my life at the same time. I've written about it in several essays and previous posts...
And this post is about movies/tv specifically but there was an insanely racist article in the New York Times, that most revered of American Newspapers, called something like "understanding the Middle East through the Animal Kingdom" just a few days ago. Not racist at all no siree...
As a film scholar, I agree on 100% with your article.
In 2016, I started my degree and I had to watch countless films per week. My awareness of the portrayal of women hit first. I couldn’t unsee, or pretend that I see it differently. It was shocking that we barely addressed some of these in class. What was more shocking was that I had seen some of the movies before and I hadn’t noticed anything.
In 2021, I began working with a non-profit social justice organisation and that was even more profound: I payed attention.
In my work, I had to write about gender, race, national origin, age, religion, diffability…
Basically, all the factors of our personality that we cannot control. Peachy.
I feel silly even commenting, Noha. For me, it's just gender. As women, there are so many stereotypes and tropes that we endure. I think the only reason why "Sex and the City" was as successful as it was is because we were so desperate to see a different representation (though, it ended up with more expensively dressed stereotypes and tropes). It doesn't really stand up today and its latest iteration is pretty awful (though it's trying! Right? Please.) I will say that there's a scene in THE DANISH GIRL, where Eddie Redmayne is about to transition, and it's this endless montage of hand gestures and preening, "practicing" being a woman and, as I watched it, I grew utterly incensed. I thought, "Only two straight white men would think *that's* all being a woman is." That there's nothing deeper than the external, only how we present. (I also think Tom Hooper is an overrated director -- second white guy I was irritated with.) My experience is vastly different to yours; there's no comparison. I have the luxury of only getting irritated, not hurt, not having to explain it to a loved one (child-free). It's terrible that you can't enjoy films with your family without that pain and having to explain. I hope, soon, that storytellers will get better at that, because it is lazy and unnecessary. And I hope more diverse people will be telling those stories. That's one way to make the change. xo
Don’t feel silly commenting! I appreciate your perspective and also the fact that are able to recognize it’s not quite the same. I will confess to having conversations with white woken where we’re commiserating and they compare the two experiences and I’m kind of like, really?
I hope they’ll get better too, and I do see general improvements but it is SLOW!!
Thank you, Noha. And that's the last white woman I would want to be! The slowness of Hollywood changing has been an endless frustration of mine (and one of the reasons I walked away from it). What artists have to remember is that they have the power to create, now more than ever. We can make movies from our phones (I'll refrain from the expletives here)! You can distribute it through YouTube or any other platform you wish if it isn't picked up by someone else. And, if you have a hungry audience, it almost behooves you to do that. Because once Hollywood sees that hunger/success, it will go in that direction. xo
That's a big part of why I'm here now and putting my writing out into the world. I have the power to create. And there's an audience for it, and I don't need gatekeepers to tell me no one wants to read my experience, because clearly some people do. Hopefully Hollywood and traditional media will catch up
Thanks for pointing this out and starting the conversation – growing up, I definitely noticed the stereotypical Asian characters in movies - long duk dong in 16 candles, the Siamese cats in Lady and the Tramp - even as a kid those characters made me so uncomfortable. Keep speaking up and advocating. It is the only way to change things. Also, I love your voice and getting your perspective out there – it’s important for us to show our humanity. I’ve been pointing things out to my daughter, and now she notices things… She asks me about why people draw Asian people with slits for eyes. We have written to publishers (and heard back) - they have not pulled existing stock off of the shelves, but they asked for our opinion for future illustrations. Every little bit helps, and I wish we could go back in time and change things!
Alice that’s so great that you’re not only teaching your daughter to recognize it but also teaching her to take positive action. We are all in this together!
Yes, I take a lot more action when it's for my kids ;)... that's also why I started my substack Happy Asian Woman - to teach my kids to value mental health and learn all the things I never knew growing up (my Chinese immigrant parents had less access to info than American parents.) Love the work you're doing!
Love that! It’s still a lot of labour but it’s a labour of love
Absolutely - you’re leaving a priceless legacy for your children ❤️
From the short time I’ve been reading your pieces, movie watching seems to encapsulate the complexity of your experience. To be overjoyed by the humor while at the same time, quietly jabbed. To have to take the bad alongside the good. I felt the grief of this—are you to deny your boys the cultural experience of these popular films to spare them the moments of unfairness and discomfort? A very quotidian yet awful dilemma. I’m so glad to be here, learning about these challenges. I, too, have been shocked by some portrayals that once seemed innocuous. (Sebastian the lobster in little mermaid?!) but maybe it’s a sign of progress that we’re looking at these depictions and wincing. The more interesting point that you raise is—at what point does the whole movie get scrapped? And who should look away? If this discomfort belongs to any of us, it should belong to all of us.
Isabel, thank you! You really summarized what I was trying to say, and I so appreciate that. We all still want to watch the movies. I've had it suggested by some to avoid them completely, and to watch stuff from Arab cultures, and while I like some Arab tv shows, I relate much better to North American and British content. It's much closer to my lived experience. So I don't fit here, and I don't fit there... Or rather, I fit here but am constantly reminded with these little jabs that others don't see me as fitting.
I agree. I often find myself thinking "this book/film would be so much better without that stereotype." I hated the portrayal of Afghanistan in Iron Man. It was such horrible caricaturing, that I hoped that the real Afghanistan wouldn't be associated with the film, just because the portrayal was so obviously false.
When I read Tolkien's works, I didn't envision the Southrons and men from the East the way the films portray them. Tolkien often borrowed imagery from ancient literarure in creating his world. The men from the south riding on oliphaunts seem based on Hannibal's campaign against Rome, when he brought elephants over the Alps. I thought of the men from the East as being based on something like Attila the Hun's threat to Rome from Eastern Europe. The films failed to convey that in the books the North was also a threat to Middle Earth, an image based on the waves of Germanic invaders from Scandinavia into the crumbling Roman Empire, starting with the Goths. Unfortunately, it is too easy for Tolkien's use of ancient history to be misinterpreted in the modern context, as it clearly was by the costume designers and makeup artists for the films, and by the script writers who left out the reason why Aragorn and his fellow rangers (who were all left out) were needed in the North.
Thanks for these thoughts, Holly. I really really love LOTR, both the movies and the books. We rewatch the movies every year, sometimes multiple times. It's good to have the background that Tolkien actually based the writing on, but it does hurt to see the way they're represented in the movie, which is just much too convenient.
I haven't watch Hindi language films but maybe I should!
Tolkien was a MAN of his time. He wrote those books before and after his experience as a soldier in World War II. He internalized a LOT of stereotypes and propaganda in all those years before and after those wars.
This is what writers today have to be careful of in their own writings. Writers must ask why that character, that setting. Of course, there are the deliberate and, these days, often unquestioned writings of those with an agenda.
Tolkien's treatment of the two or three women in his trilogy is and was off-putting for me back in the 1970s when I read his books for the first time, but I excused this because he was a 'man of his time'. The second time was the portrayals of the Southrons and kinds of peoples drawn to his beliefs. "Wrong!" I thought. "What of the pasty white men drawn to his beliefs?" I wondered, but put it down to his exposure to propaganda. He hadn't even been in that part of the world, I think though don't know.
Oh yes, we've participated in debates about the right or wrong of the serial rapists in movies that were portrayed as mere scamps, mischievious rascals. "Well done!" the boys, and possibly us, would think.
Entertainment as portrayal of an era and entertainment as propaganda, which is it? Is it both? I wonder these days.
Ellen, thank you for adding the take about women. How ridiculously few there were in this insanely long, over arching epic story. Arwen especially drove me crazy, and her portrayal by Liv Tyler was especially grating. I have a soft spot for Cate Blanchett and I find Galadriel and Eowyn both more whole, as opposed to just being romantic interests and defined by their relationships to either their father or husband/boyfriend.
I still absolutely adore the stories though. But all my favourite characters are male: Gandalf, Samwise, Boromir and Faramir, even Gollum. I was manipulated but I accepted the manipulation.
Absolutely agree! Cate could never do wrong in my eyes and the Galadriel character was a woman that didn't stay at her husband's side, but oversaw the health of her community. She was sooo like a woman to be both soft and hard at the same time.
Arwen's character was Icky in the book and in the movie. I've never been able to see Liv Tyler as any of the characters she has ever played. If you remember the books, Arwen was a one dimensional character anyway did no loss there ;-).
I still read the books. It used to be a annual thing for me. The movies sort of our me off Tolkien for a bit.
I guess I liked my imagining of the characters much better and so many lovely stories had to be left out. Such as Bombador and the corrupted trees.
I adored both the books and the movies and try to re-read and rewatch as often as I can.
I must say I often enjoy how Hindi language films satirize British culture. The British officials in 'Lagaan', with their clueless arrogance, are a good example.
"I wish they would love me back." So powerful. Thanks for adding something to read that doesn't trade on that hurt.
Thank you! I appreciate your kind words.
@noha beshir ... thank you for this perspective. I had never considered the metaphorical weight of simple tropes such as East/West light/dark ... a lot of food for thought here. Another aspect of white privilege I hadn't considered ... movies, stories in general, have long used stereotypes as an easy way to telegraph a point. Heroes are generally white males, villains are "the others." Even as a primarily non-fiction writer, I am going to be much more careful about the stories I share.
Thanks Joyce. Metaphorical weight is a good way to describe it, for sure!
As a Jew, I find and notice a lot of offensive Jewish tropes in prewar literature.
It's never really bothered me, because there are so many more recent counter examples.
I wonder if there's an opportunity to contrast the movies you love but have those barbs of anti-Muslim racism with more recent ones that have characters whose Muslim identity is viewed with favor or at least neutrality. Do they exist and at the same time are they age appropriate? I don't know. But they should!
David, thanks so much for your comment. There are honestly so few positive examples and a handful of neutral ones, and even the neutral ones are usually woefully inaccurate. There are also still so many negatives. It's moving in the right direction, but it is very slow going.
A good recent example is Miss Marvel, which was mainly positive, but really not accurate at all. We watched it with the kids, hoping for that experience of feeling represented, and found it fun but not at all relatable.
Then there are Ramy and Mo, two shows with Muslim male leads, but they are definitely adult only content, and they again don't represent a practicing Muslim experience at all (drinking, dating, other NSFW content, etc). The characters are at least humanized?
One thing I've appreciated is that some movies have stopped making Muslims/Arabs the default enemy. If you notice the most recent Top Gun, they intentionally never mention or show the enemy beyond describing them as the "The Enemy". It worked great! Not alienating anyone and still being tonnes of fun and adventure.
I'm holding out hope that there will be more. Like you said, they certainly should exist!
I watched Ms. Marvel, Ramy and Mo, which as a non-Muslim I watched and loved but can’t speak to how accurate or representative they are.
I am from Houston so I particularly loved Mo and it being a love letter to H-town. I think with all of those shows, it does represent a shift in showing different subjectivities of Muslim characters rather than all within one hardened, racist trope.
That’s the beauty of Ms. Marvel, which was essentially a coming of age story, to show a desi female Muslim superhero to kids - that would have been unheard of 10 years ago!
Anyway I enjoyed this piece, and it reminds me that we should show our kids some oldies too-I’ve mostly been playing old songs from the 90’s for them!
Hahaaa we play a lot of old songs too.
Ramy and Mo were lots of fun, and they probably portray a specific experience very well (that of the secular Muslim). My beef is probably that they don't portray the majority experience that well. I believe the majority of Muslims are practicing, at least to some degree, and that means a lot of things that are often a crutch in shows (bar scenes, dating/sex/etc, drugs, etc) are not going to make frequent appearances in shows that would represent us. So, they just avoid representing us, even though we are a HUGE portion of the population.
The Houston representation was fantastic. I find their stand up really great, to be honest, more so than the shows...
Ms. Marvel was fun, and maybe more relatable for Desis. As an Arab, my kids were confused. We've almost never talked about Jinn and the references were so frequent...
That totally makes sense re: representation.
One side note on Mo - it made TV history in the sense that it was the first time there was a scripted series set entirely in Houston AND the first time it centered a Palestinian family!
For Ms. Marvel, Jinn was so integral to the storyline and the MCU overall that they definitely talked about it a lot. I have a bunch of Muslim friends for whom Jinn stories were a regular part of their upbringing, so its great to hear your perspective about it. Just shows the importance of having as many diverse characters on screen as possible, with diverse stories.
Yes, the Palestinian family and representation was awesome.
I guess the Jinn thing just highlights that since there are nearly 2 billion of us, we're far from monolithic.
I found this article. I don't know if any of these movies would fit what you're looking for.
https://astorytellinghome.com/2016/02/19/9-fictional-films-that-feature-strong-muslim-female-character/
Thanks David. I'll check it out.
Hollywood was racist at its inception. In 1915 DW Griffiths, Birth of A Nation, depicted Black people as unintelligent and the KKK as heroic. Griffiths was a known racist, proudly hating Jews and Blacks. Gone With The Wind was another celebrated movie that is painful to watch today. Hattie McDaniel was the first Black woman to win an Oscar yet had to enter through a different door at the theatre and was not allowed to sit with her white costars. While movies have changed a lot, especially in the last five years with DEI, I still see Jewish tropes. It’s heartbreaking. I’m glad I raised my kids to know that G-d created us equally. There are some movies I refuse to watch if the starring actor is known for his or her Jew hatred.
You might try some newer kids movies as Hollywood has become more self aware. Here’s a great site that recommends movies that celebrate diversity. I’ve seen some of these movies. Soul, 42, Hidden Figures… all wonderful. https://tinybeans.com/family-movies-that-celebrate-diversity/
Thanks for the rec. I've seen most of the movies there and we do watch a lot of the new stuff. I just love the stuff I grew up on too... Things are changing, but not quickly enough, that's for sure. The anti-Jewish, anti-Black, anti-Arab and anti-Muslim tropes are still there.
😞
As a big fan of Tolkien, reading the books once a year and watching the movies at least once a year, I absolutely agree with you on the problems with race in the films and books.
In the books, of course, we have a more nuanced take—despite the orientalist and if not unwittingly racist than surely glaringly race-blind and embarrassing descriptions of orcs & the Haradrim.
I especially wish that the following passage from the books had made it into the non-extended release of the movies. This is from the scene where Faramir and his company fight the southerners in Ithilien — where one of the southern warriors is killed and his body is thrown right next to where Frodo and Sam are hiding.
“It was Sam's first view of a battle of Men against Men, and he did not like it much. He was glad that he could not see the dead face. He wondered what the man's name was and where he came from; and if he was really evil of heart, or what lies or threats had led him on the long march from his home; and if he would rather have stayed there in peace.”
The films, which mostly do such a good job in modernizing certain aspects of the story, just kept in the racist nonsense. It wouldn’t have even been that hard to make the southerners visually distinct while also not being obviously middle eastern.
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I’d love to see an essay about Ms. Marvel sometime. 👀
Thank you so much Willow. I love this detailed take on the books and movies. I've always loved them and read and watch regularly, but I never really "studied" them, so your added perspective is so welcome.
People, and I understand their reasons, love to try and explain away the problematic pieces of Tolkien’s writing. Those who read the various extra-literary sources of world building can find in explicit terms what the novels only mention in passing. There are problematic things in the worldbuilding—and how can there not be? Tolkien, bless him, was an ENGLISHMAN who fought in WW1!
But I think we ought to be honest about it—and, looking critically at the whole of the work there is much to praise as well as much to groan at.
Lots of the Rings is a classic of fantasy literature—many branches of fantasy today are drawn so directly from Tolkien (I mean, Dungeons & Dragons was *SUED* by the Tolkien estate and had to change the language of many characters and character class features as a result: hobbit became halfling, ent became treant, etc).
It is not going to go anywhere or lose its centrality to fantasy if we honestly critique the ways in which it fails. So we must! Especially those of us with Tolkien-esque swords on our belts at every Ren Fair (me) and scores of prints of Middle Earth on our walls (also me).
It appears I’ve found a soap box…apologies lol.
Hahahaaaa you’re welcome to opine here anytime you like. I agree with all of it. Don’t hide the ugly parts away. Hold it up to the sun, see it for what it is. It takes nothing away from the books
I work hard to pay attention to how people are portrayed. I am 58 and started doing this as a young adult as I began to unlearn sexism, racism, homophobia etc.
So I have a movie recommendation for all of us: The Persian Version. I saw it on a flight yesterday and it is a rich, funny and poignant portrait of an Iranian American family, focusing on the experiences of the women. It's available on various streaming services. It's directed by Maryam Keshavarz.
Hi Jodi,
Thanks for the rec! I'll look for it the next time I need a movie watch.
Noha, you are spot-on. I had a list of 80s movies to watch with the kids. I stopped after Back to the Future. Those Libyan terrorists were SO randomly injurious. They were a faceless mob of chaotic violence. "The Enemy." I asked my kids why they were there, and they basically said, "they needed brown people for the audience to be angry at." Plus, the plot over all (almost-incest?) was horrible.
We love Marvel (although phase 4 is struggling) but watched Iron Man exactly once. I had never seen it before. It feels soaked in American post 9/11, Iraq War propaganda. Hatred against Arab people (and those perceived to be so) became a form of patriotism.
I read C.S. Lewis books (a fellow Inkling with Tolkien) to the kids when they were young and had to edit them on the fly to leave out the "dark = bad" tropes rampant in The Horse and His Boy.
We need better narratives with at *least* the amount of nuance granted to white male serial killers.
Lol your last line absolutely killed me.
I find Robert Downey Junior so entertaining and his Tony Stark so snarkily hilarious that I'll watch every outing of him as Iron Man, even if it hurts me. You're right about Hatred Against Arabs and others perceived to be Arab. I remember post 9/11 the amount of violence faced by Sikh people was atrocious and was a result of ignorant Americans not knowing the difference between a Sikh person and an Arab. Interchangeable brown people.
The plot of Back to the Future is ridiculous, you're right. I guess I just loved Marty and Doc, and how silly everything was. I'm a deeply silly person 🤷🏽♀️
re Lord of the Rings-- the book was written post WW1 and pre WW2. At that time, Britain was concerned about Hitler. Germany was east of Britain. He was one of a group of writers whose books were somewhat political.
However, the rest of what you mention is truly casual racism that no one noticed (notices?). Until people like you point it out, it won't change. What we can't see we can't change. "When you know better, you do better"- Maya Angelou
Thanks Ellen! Holly talks about the basis for Tolkien's "villains" a little more in another comment and it's helpful. The movies ignore all of that though.
I've wanted to get back to comment on this piece, Noha, after reading it a couple of days ago. I admit that my sensitivity to and awareness of bigotry has grown tremendously, a product of paying more attention and of making a conscious effort to widen the lenses I use to view the world. White, cis-, female raised in the south, I wasn't smart enough to see or challenge these things in my earlier life. I am sincerely sorry for that. In a similar vein, I've never had the chance to live outside of this country, nor in a particularly diverse community. So, I hope you and other readers will bear with my ignorance and/or naivety when I ask a question: Are films created in other countries apt to do the same as those produced in the west? By that I mean, are white people or Christians presented as stereotypes? I hope that's not a racist question. I don't mean it to be.. :/ I realize Hollywood is a behemoth that has dominated the film industry, so it's a little bit of a moot point. I just had never considered this until now.
Thank you for an honest, insightful piece.
Elizabeth, I'm so glad you came back and commented. First off, I want to tell you that the question is not racist and that I know you're asking from a place of curiosity and I'm happy to unpack it with you. Here are my thoughts:
I don't have a ton of experience with films from other countries, but from the experience I do have watching some old Egyptian shows/movies, the portrayal of white people and Christians are presented quite aspirationally. So, overall, once a while there is some stereotyping, it's almost always positive stereotyping, if that makes sense?
The other thing I'd say is around the concept of punching up or punching down. This is the idea of factoring in power dynamics - in that making fun of a group that has been marginalized is much worse than making fun of a group that has all the power. A really sharp / funny explanation of this is this clip by Australian Indian Comedian Aamer Rahman. It's a lot but honestly he really captures why the two groups making fun of each other are not the same in a way I was never able to articulate. Hope you can enjoy it... If you have more questions/thoughts after watching it, I'm always here to help unpack 🖤🖤🖤
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dw_mRaIHb-M
That makes a lot of sense! Thank you for the link and the thoughtful response. Truly appreciated.
absolutely! Any time. Also, if you have more questions, I'm thinking of doing an AMA post (basically, I'll take questions and write the responses in a post) - your question can be public or anonymous, let me know!
Love the idea! Keep us posted.
A great issue as usual, Noha!
"It’s barbaric, but hey, it’s home”. OMG this hits home. And I remember watching the cartoon, and I must've sang these lyrics mindlessly in the past. I never even really examined what the words meant until I read this newsletter.
And I relate to this now more than ever, with the rise of anti-China sentiments in the West, I can't watch CNN or any US/European news commentary anymore because they often like to highlight the bad things in China/being Chinese rather than celebrate a lot of the good things from that country. I cannot explain why, as a member of the Chinese diaspora whose ancestors have not lived in China for 200+ years, that I feel this way. Except that I feel that they're insulting my heritage. The Mulan live action from Disney, for example, was especially egregious to me, and I am currently waiting in dread for Netflix's adaptation of Three-Body, which has a very unique Chinese perspective.
So, to spare myself the grief that you endured here, I no longer watch Western dramas, movies or news except for those I carefully cultivate to ensure they are balanced (they are pretty hard to find, alas). I am fortunate, however, that I'm multilingual and live in a part of the world where I can easily access content straight from various countries such as India, Malaysia, China, so I do not have to purely rely on Western sources for my entertainment and I somehow relate to the Chinese ones still, despite not being China Chinese.
Yup yup yup... I forgot that line existed for YEARS...
And yes it is infuriating. To come from a country with a long, rich history and then reduce that all to the most narrow view possible because you don't like the country's current politics. I get your take fully, that it being insulting to your heritage is enough of a reason to find it upsetting, even if you haven't lived there and your family hasn't been there for 200+ years. It's still who you are. We don't shed our history.
Yes, truly! As for your situation, especially with the heartbreaking horror that's happening in Palestine and the middle east, I just can't imagine the anger and sadness. Because I imagine if China were attacked the same way I'd be so upset.
Eventhough, logically I tell myself, well, I'm not from China ... but these are still my cousins, my people. And I'm sure it's the same for you.
Absolutely. I feel like I'm living a fractured existence, observing the genocide of Palestinians on my phone while I live my life at the same time. I've written about it in several essays and previous posts...
And this post is about movies/tv specifically but there was an insanely racist article in the New York Times, that most revered of American Newspapers, called something like "understanding the Middle East through the Animal Kingdom" just a few days ago. Not racist at all no siree...
I look at those stereotypes with a long suck teeth (rude West Indian sound), knowing that they're a reflection of someone's narrow way of thinking.
That's the best way - push it back on who it's actually about. Good for you.
As a film scholar, I agree on 100% with your article.
In 2016, I started my degree and I had to watch countless films per week. My awareness of the portrayal of women hit first. I couldn’t unsee, or pretend that I see it differently. It was shocking that we barely addressed some of these in class. What was more shocking was that I had seen some of the movies before and I hadn’t noticed anything.
In 2021, I began working with a non-profit social justice organisation and that was even more profound: I payed attention.
In my work, I had to write about gender, race, national origin, age, religion, diffability…
Basically, all the factors of our personality that we cannot control. Peachy.
It's pretty much everywhere... And once you see it you can't unsee it.
I feel silly even commenting, Noha. For me, it's just gender. As women, there are so many stereotypes and tropes that we endure. I think the only reason why "Sex and the City" was as successful as it was is because we were so desperate to see a different representation (though, it ended up with more expensively dressed stereotypes and tropes). It doesn't really stand up today and its latest iteration is pretty awful (though it's trying! Right? Please.) I will say that there's a scene in THE DANISH GIRL, where Eddie Redmayne is about to transition, and it's this endless montage of hand gestures and preening, "practicing" being a woman and, as I watched it, I grew utterly incensed. I thought, "Only two straight white men would think *that's* all being a woman is." That there's nothing deeper than the external, only how we present. (I also think Tom Hooper is an overrated director -- second white guy I was irritated with.) My experience is vastly different to yours; there's no comparison. I have the luxury of only getting irritated, not hurt, not having to explain it to a loved one (child-free). It's terrible that you can't enjoy films with your family without that pain and having to explain. I hope, soon, that storytellers will get better at that, because it is lazy and unnecessary. And I hope more diverse people will be telling those stories. That's one way to make the change. xo
Don’t feel silly commenting! I appreciate your perspective and also the fact that are able to recognize it’s not quite the same. I will confess to having conversations with white woken where we’re commiserating and they compare the two experiences and I’m kind of like, really?
I hope they’ll get better too, and I do see general improvements but it is SLOW!!
Thank you, Noha. And that's the last white woman I would want to be! The slowness of Hollywood changing has been an endless frustration of mine (and one of the reasons I walked away from it). What artists have to remember is that they have the power to create, now more than ever. We can make movies from our phones (I'll refrain from the expletives here)! You can distribute it through YouTube or any other platform you wish if it isn't picked up by someone else. And, if you have a hungry audience, it almost behooves you to do that. Because once Hollywood sees that hunger/success, it will go in that direction. xo
That's a big part of why I'm here now and putting my writing out into the world. I have the power to create. And there's an audience for it, and I don't need gatekeepers to tell me no one wants to read my experience, because clearly some people do. Hopefully Hollywood and traditional media will catch up
Lead the way! I'm right behind you. xo
🖤🖤🖤🖤